PC It's gonna hit the fan

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Blister
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It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Blister » Thu Sep 20, 2018 18:58

In a few hours, the devs are going to announce the real punishment for ghunts. They're going to take away salvage ad. Not joking. They're waiting for the end of the day to tell everybody.

It won't let me post a reply so I edit this. I mean that the devs will stop granting rough AD from salvage, starting in mod 15.
Last edited by Blister on Thu Sep 20, 2018 19:34, edited 1 time in total.

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j0Shi
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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by j0Shi » Thu Sep 20, 2018 19:30

Doesn't sound like that much of a "real" punishment to me. But would actually be the first time that they take exploited goods from players on a large scale. I guess you would have posted it if you wanted to. But what's the source?
"This information is not official and is not supported by PWE. This content was removed from the official neverwinter forums because it provides information that is potentially false and sheds a negative light on unpublished and unknown drop rates within the game." -melodywhr

Blister
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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Blister » Thu Sep 20, 2018 20:07

Trying again.

They are going to make it where you can't get rough AD from salvage any more.

Hope it posts this time, edited my original post.

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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by PutzBoy78 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 00:13

that's not a punishment for the hunts, its a punishment because they can't balance ad in this game. The intention is to reduce the impact of exploits should they occur as it regards to loot drops. its reactive, its passive aggressive, and its a blatant nerf to the ad economy and its stupid. This change will be positive for people leveling up and newer/transient traffic, it will be bad for long term players as they continue to push the idea of people logging in, doing random queues and logging out.

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j0Shi
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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by j0Shi » Fri Sep 21, 2018 03:16

Blister wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 20:07
Trying again.

They are going to make it where you can't get rough AD from salvage any more.

Hope it posts this time, edited my original post.
Gotcha. And you / your source were right. Agree with Putz that this is not a punishment, or even related to the exploit. It's just yet another nerf to RAD income.
"This information is not official and is not supported by PWE. This content was removed from the official neverwinter forums because it provides information that is potentially false and sheds a negative light on unpublished and unknown drop rates within the game." -melodywhr

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Mr.Linux
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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Mr.Linux » Fri Sep 21, 2018 04:02

Here is the link to the changes he is talking about.

First this is not a punishment. They are trying to cut out some middleman steps. Instead of buying a ring for seals --> salvage ring for RAD --> convert RAD to AD. They are selling the RAD for seals. RAD is in the stores and chests, which eliminates the salvager. The question on my mind is, will purple armor drop that is bound to account and I can't sell? If I can't wear it, at present without salvage, I would look at it as a garbage drop. If I can post them in the AH then the item will sell to someone who needs it until we get market saturation.

Second this is not going to eliminate RAD, but depending on Preview, a lot of people just farming the AD might stop playing. The question you should ask yourself at this point; Am I playing the game and enjoying it? or Am I just hoarding virtual game currency? In most sandbox games such as this, you need to set some personal goals and stop worrying about the various currencies.

Third I haven't played this game enough to know everything about it. I have seldom come across so many currencies in just 1 game. I am an old school PnP DM, I ran all my games with gold only and said, screw the small change. My players enjoyed the story more than the collection of wealth. In fact, one party was rewarded by a banquet and song. Some players loved to gained fame over wealth. I suppose that is one perk of a PnP over a computer based game.

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Shadowblade
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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Shadowblade » Sat Sep 22, 2018 01:28

I have not had a "Main" since Mod 8. I play (almost) all my characters, which one depending on my mood. I have at least 3 of every class, but only 2 CWs. As I cannot play almost 30 characters every day, most of them always have a 100k +50% rAD Invoking Bonus.

The problem with using seals to buy rough AD is that the Seals are immovable, character-bound currencies. So unless the rAD are account-bound crates or bags of rAD, this is definitely a nerf as there will be no salvagable gear in chests or from drops.

The Primal boots for Seals of the Brave are account-bound so can be purchased with an Alt that did 3 RQs at Levelling, Intermediate and Advanced level with +50% Invoking bonus, and the gear salvaged on another Alt with 100k +50% Invoking bonus.

This way, I could take turns with several characters of 11 to 13k to get the seals for the Primal gear for every other class until their Invoking bonus dropped from 100k to 0k. Then they would have a rest and Invoke and do Professions for a few weeks to get back up to 100k +50% bonus AD.

EG, my Dragonborn DO DC got gear for himself, then my Dwarf AC DC used that gear to get gear for my GF, then my Dwarf GF IV, then my Halfling GF SM, then my Tiefling OP and so on, each class buying Primal gear for another class. I would use Seals of the Brave to buy salvage boots only once I had geared every class.

I still spend Demonic Ichor on Drow Boots, of course.

If we can buy "Bags of rAD" with Seals of the Brave like we can with Adventurer Seals, and these bags are BtC/BoP, then we cannot get the +50% bonus for them on an Alt, so our "Main" will deplete faster.

Ultimately, this will mean that instead of playing a character for up to maybe a week until their invoking bonus has dropped from 100k to 0k and then playing another Alt, their bonus will drop from 100k to 0k in less time, so I will play my Alts more frequently.

BUT, all the gear from the chests in FBI, Svardborg etc will no longer be salvageable, so I will be losing out there.

But I really don't think I will have less fun. Doing a solo Malabog's Castle and Valindra's Tower on a 13k GF, and exploring EVERY room in detail for the FIRST TIME in nearly five years was great fun. Even though I got no AD for it as an RQ, just a little salvage from the chest and drops.

I HATE Speed Runs. Always have, always will. Exploring Malabog's Castle in complete detail for the first time was a great experience.

I am more concerned about the changes to Professions.

:)
:shock:
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a HAMSTER! man in possession of a good HAMSTER!, must be in want of a QUACK!"
Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen (1775–1817)

Good to see forum censorship never makes things look worse then they actually were to start with.

:roll:

Blister
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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Blister » Sat Sep 22, 2018 02:08

The decision to implement this was, in fact, punitive, though they waited for the ghunts blew up to announce it. In fact, they held off on patching to have a proper "incentive" to implement. The AD generated from the glitch is now being removed form the economy, with additional bans coming.

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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by larry » Sat Sep 22, 2018 03:31

and that they did.. they passed out bans , took ad and so on.. and its a huge scale.. epic..

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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Blister » Sun Sep 23, 2018 02:47

According to my source, the blow back on this has generated some heat from higher up the food chain and from partners. The concern is that it looks too sloppy to hammer on this specific exploit. Rather than admit any wrong doing, however, the emphasis will be on bans for anything else considered an exploit. This includes power leveling, selling AD or items for real world currency (apparently, Facebook groups will be targeted), glitching bosses/traps/other mechanics in dungeons, and having multiple accounts (or GT/PSN ID). Those will not be implemented all at once, but they're going to check regularly for these and have cycles of suspensions and bans for the near future. I don't understand the reasoning here - exactly how many players do they have that have never done ANY of this? Not good.

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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by j0Shi » Sun Sep 23, 2018 16:30

Blister wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 02:47
According to my source, the blow back on this has generated some heat from higher up the food chain and from partners. The concern is that it looks too sloppy to hammer on this specific exploit. Rather than admit any wrong doing, however, the emphasis will be on bans for anything else considered an exploit. This includes power leveling, selling AD or items for real world currency (apparently, Facebook groups will be targeted), glitching bosses/traps/other mechanics in dungeons, and having multiple accounts (or GT/PSN ID). Those will not be implemented all at once, but they're going to check regularly for these and have cycles of suspensions and bans for the near future. I don't understand the reasoning here - exactly how many players do they have that have never done ANY of this? Not good.
Not sure I understand what you're saying. Has Cryptic's / PWE's handling of this specific situation generated heat or has the (lack of) handling of exploits in general generated heat (and higher ups want more bans based on wrongdoings in the future)?
"This information is not official and is not supported by PWE. This content was removed from the official neverwinter forums because it provides information that is potentially false and sheds a negative light on unpublished and unknown drop rates within the game." -melodywhr

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Shadowblade
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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Shadowblade » Sun Sep 23, 2018 16:40

I'd like to know who Blister's "source" is.

And who are these people "higher up the food chain"?

:)
:shock:
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a HAMSTER! man in possession of a good HAMSTER!, must be in want of a QUACK!"
Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen (1775–1817)

Good to see forum censorship never makes things look worse then they actually were to start with.

:roll:

Blister
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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Blister » Sun Sep 23, 2018 20:47

I can't name names, sorry.

But, by higher up, I mean executive management in the company and they're unhappy with all the negative reactions to this incident, when CS has been so lax towards exploits in the past few years.

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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by j0Shi » Mon Sep 24, 2018 06:01

Blister wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 20:47
I can't name names, sorry.

But, by higher up, I mean executive management in the company and they're unhappy with all the negative reactions to this incident, when CS has been so lax towards exploits in the past few years.
Gotcha, thanks!
"This information is not official and is not supported by PWE. This content was removed from the official neverwinter forums because it provides information that is potentially false and sheds a negative light on unpublished and unknown drop rates within the game." -melodywhr

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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Mr.Linux » Tue Sep 25, 2018 03:35

Sorry if I am wrong, but the more I read Blisters posts, the more he sounds paranoid or delusional to the point I expect them to spout some nonsense about chem-trails and UFO conspiracies. The only thing higher than Cryptic is their producers; PWE, Hasbro, Wizards of the Coast. Let's break down who exploits would hurt here.

PWE doesn't give 2 shits about exploits. This shows where they have several games that allow players to bot the game (yes built into the game) without the use of external scripts. One game, that I know of, even encourages you to AFK to achieve experience. PWE would not care about exploits in NW.

Hasbro is there only because they represent the toy brands. Selling toys is not effected the NW exploiters.

Wizards of the Coast is selling table top games and books to us PnP players. No effect here unless they start making up game lore that gets them upset. In fact... at PAX the WoC Producer stated they take a back seat to any decisions Cryptic makes as long as it doesn't misrepresent their product.

So this leaves us with Cryptic and there isn't a higher up the chain of command when you have 2 people calling the shots. Naming names here; Thomas Foss and Matt Powers are the top of that "food chain".

Also I wanted to state, I heard from players on Preview the RAD is there in the stores, and some AD is even more than you currently get from salvage. So explain to me again, how salvage RAD removal is taking food out of your mouth?

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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by NW1234 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 05:38

Not that I know who the exact source is or that the person owes us any further explanation (but guessing some random mid level dev/CSR), but there's plenty of "executive management" that could be unhappy with bad PR. Guys like Stephen D'Angelo, Craig Zinkievich, and similar (could even be higher level PMs). At a company of Cryptic's size, Foss and Powers are actually relatively low on the totem pole, just being normal higher tier ICs/middle management, but since they have more face time with the public, they're more well known.

As far as the actual content of the post warning about possible future bans, it's possible, especially if for whatever reason someone with authority there feels like it. They already announced about a month ago (on the video) that they would consider banning on more things like multi-account. The fact that they haven't done it/have been too lazy/whatever doesn't mean they won't (just like no one expected the magnitude of the bans for this). I'd consider it unlikely but it's not like Cryptic hasn't made poor decisions before that alienated a large part of the player base.

As far as the new AD goes, it's not that you can't get your 100k/day in various ways, including new ways, but they seem to be trying to make it take longer on average so overall fewer people will cap out. If they misjudge something that gives too much, they'll reduce that again (like the VB that they're likely to reconsider already).

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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Shadowblade » Tue Sep 25, 2018 15:13

Mr.Linux wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 03:35
the more I read Blisters posts, the more he sounds paranoid or delusional to the point I expect them to spout some nonsense about chem-trails and UFO conspiracies.
ROFLMAO!!

I'm always more than a little skeptical about people who claim to have "unnamed sources" who will remain unnamed. It could be David Niven! Or the WotC janitor's cat!

Mr.Linux wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 03:35
PWE doesn't give 2 shits about exploits. This shows where they have several games that allow players to bot the game (yes built into the game) without the use of external scripts.
Really? I wish there was something to automate Invoking and Professions in Neverwinter.

One of the conspiracy theories around Zone since launch is that PWE themselves are the bots and gold spammers, in order to stem income loss: they know that some players will buy from pirates and other 3rd parties, so those 3rd parties might as well be PWE's Chinese Server Farms.

It also seems to be the case that many inexperienced players think that it is Bots that push up AH prices: of course, this is not true. It's greedy players who do that. I well remember buying stacks of 99 rank 5 enchants for an absolute pittance, before they removed enchants from Skill Nodes. Bots "Stack 'em High and Sell 'em Cheap", as they don't need to sleep and can generate AD round the clock.

Mr.Linux wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 03:35
Also I wanted to state, I heard from players on Preview the RAD is there in the stores, and some AD is even more than you currently get from salvage. So explain to me again, how salvage RAD removal is taking food out of your mouth?
I don't think anyone said it was taking food out of anyone's mouth. But it MIGHT be "taking AD out of your AD Tab" and making it less easy to acquire.

For example, when I decided to play one of my GF Alts to farm Seals of the Brave to buy Primal gear for the Paladin, he had a maxed out 100k +50% Bonus rAD Pool from Invoking. After a few days, this 100k bonus had dropped to Zero because he was able to run Leveling, Intermediate and Advanced queues. All the Salvage gear he got I put in the Shared Bank and salvaged it on other characters that had 100k +50% bonus AD.

When he was down to Zero bonus AD, I put the OP Primal gear on one of my Paladins that had 100k Invoking bonus, and farmed Seals of the Brave to get Primal gear for my SWs. And so on for all 8 classes, after going to Barovia for their Vistani gear.

Then I salvaged all my Drowcraft, Elemental Drowcraft, Ostorian Relic and PvP gear. Then I salvaged all the Vistani gear. Then I spent all my Demonic Ichor on Boots and salvaged those.

So, if we can buy "Bags of AD" for Seals, we cannot ALSO buy Gear that can later be salvaged for rAD, like I just salvaged a load of gear I had acquired from Mod 8 up to now, plus I bought some Mod 8 gear just to salvage by using up my spare Demonic Ichor.

PLUS, if these "Bags of rAD" are not account-bound, then we cannot give them to an Alt for the 50% bonus - we have to use them on the character that farmed the Seals. But we are farming seals to buy gear for other classes. Gear that we can later salvage for AD when they change from Seals of the Brave to something else in Seven Suns in PE.

So, we cannot buy Gear that is worth 9,900 rAD per chest and 8,250 per head, arms and feet and 6,600 per ring, or 34,650 per suit, per class (+13,200 per pair of rings), when we have finished with it and we can get new gear from the Seal Vendor in PE for next Season's Seals.

We can EITHER buy the gear, or we can buy the rAD. And we may not be able to make full use of our 100k +50% rAD Bonus from Invoking by passing the Bags of rAD to an Alt to open.

I was a little pissed off salvaging my Elemental Drowcraft. I was hoping that we'd get new Black Ice Forging recipes. But AssTardTurd, the imbecile in charge of re-designing Professions, does not understand enough about Professions and has decided to remove Black Ice Forging for absolutely incorrect and spurious reasons, based on an incorrect assumption that he made based entirely on his own utter ignorance of how Black Ice Forging actually works.

:)
:shock:
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a HAMSTER! man in possession of a good HAMSTER!, must be in want of a QUACK!"
Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen (1775–1817)

Good to see forum censorship never makes things look worse then they actually were to start with.

:roll:

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Mr.Linux
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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Mr.Linux » Tue Sep 25, 2018 18:28

Shadowblade wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 15:13
Really? I wish there was something to automate Invoking and Professions in Neverwinter.

One of the conspiracy theories around Zone since launch is that PWE themselves are the bots and gold spammers, in order to stem income loss: they know that some players will buy from pirates and other 3rd parties, so those 3rd parties might as well be PWE's Chinese Server Farms.
I could believe this to be plausable. In short, it would be like the DEA selling the drugs from the drug busts. They get credit for both legal and illegal buys. But without the smoking gun all we have is conspiracy theory.

The game I spoke of (never played it) is Jade Dynasty, according to the wikipedia Esper works similarly to "bot" programs within the game. This feature allows Jade Dynasty players to grind for items and experience while away from their computers. Meditation feature is an AFK state gaining experience. PWE sounds like they encourage botting and exploiting or they don't see it as a threat.

Cryptic wouldn't need to do much to fix their bot issues, if they gave rewards to players for identifying bots. The report system would best work on a report cards. Every time you are reported as a bot by another player, your account would get a black flag on your character. Then on the weekly maintenance player logs with extremely high rate of flags could be reviewed. If the player reports a proven bot, they are sent an item by game mail. If the player reports several players who are not bots, they are sent a warning about abusing the report system for financial gain. Adding to that, a zero tolerance policy, that once caught "red handed" your account is deleted (not banned) and your IP blocked. I seriously doubt little Billy would dare think of botting. Meanwhile your gold seller bots would get blocked, spoof IP, and blocked again. Bounties on botters is just one simple method of taking out the trash.

According to my wife, playing on Preview, she told me they have done some automation to professions. There is a box to tick to repeat a task as many times as it can be done or you can set a number of repeats. Invoking is 15, 30, 45, 60, and 90 minutes a total of 4 hours per day. Unless you are dealing with a massive amount of characters, I would think it best to do the first and second invoke in the morning before work/school. Come home invoke and play 2 to 3 hours, doing final invoke before bed.

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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Daze » Tue Sep 25, 2018 18:41

Shadowblade wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 15:13
One of the conspiracy theories around Zone since launch is that PWE themselves are the bots and gold spammers, in order to stem income loss: they know that some players will buy from pirates and other 3rd parties, so those 3rd parties might as well be PWE's Chinese Server Farms.
Since i am a retired items and diamonds source of major Gold Sellers (AD and item seller is more accurate) and power leveling services, i can say than somes told me than people claiming to be former members of PWE and Cryptic workforces contributed to this business few years ago, as individuals. But as a simple player who sold diamonds and items to resellers, i could not verify if true or not.

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Re: It's gonna hit the fan

Post by Mr.Linux » Wed Sep 26, 2018 02:18

Every company has its share of disgruntle employees. Cryptic apparently more so, the source code for both Star Trek and Neverwinter had to be leaked from an employee. You cannot get your paws on it any other way... well probably breaking and entering comes to mind, but that is over the top. The source code is very old by today's standards but shows that early on they had issues.

BTW Shadowblade, Craig Zinkievich left 3 years ago to work as the CEO of Cold Iron.

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