PC 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

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100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by Shadowblade » Fri May 11, 2018 03:28

WTF?

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neve ... l-diamonds

Do they not grasp that the ZAX backlog is not because there are too many AD in the economy, but because not enough people are buying Zen for cash and trading it?

And, if they are anything like me, most players only spend cash on Zen during a 25% charge promo and only spend it in a sale. I never trade Zen for AD (or vice versa) and I spend most of it at the Wondrous Bazaar.

This will be a Game Killer.
:shock:
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a HAMSTER! man in possession of a good HAMSTER!, must be in want of a QUACK!"
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Good to see forum censorship never makes things look worse then they actually were to start with.

:roll:

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by Enomic » Fri May 11, 2018 10:13

What the dev said isn't wrong. People are not exchanging Zen for AD because the AD is inflated and even at 500 AD/ 1 Zen, it's just not worth it to spend real money for the ingame AD.

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by Shadowblade » Fri May 11, 2018 10:40

But who would spend real money on Zen in order to trade it for AD? It is not the AD that lacks value, it's the Zen. When people buy Zen for cash, they keep it because only a few things actually need Zen.

What is there, exactly, on the Zen Market that is actually worth buying? Very, very little. And what IS worth buying can be bought during a Sale with Zen bought with cash during a 25% charge promo.

What is there on the Zen market that is not grossly over-priced in cash terms? Very, very little. And the little there is that is worth buying can be bought during a Sale. Especially the 50% Summer Sale.

Character Slots (80% off)
Account-Wide Mounts
Pres Wards
VIP
Bank Slots (maybe)
Race Reroll
Respec Tokens

I can't think of anything else.

Ten Power Points are not a bad price, but with the new XP tables and leveling 2 out of 3 days or 3 times in 4 days just from Invoking means I won't be buying any more of those.
:shock:
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a HAMSTER! man in possession of a good HAMSTER!, must be in want of a QUACK!"
Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen (1775–1817)

Good to see forum censorship never makes things look worse then they actually were to start with.

:roll:

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by Burlyfish » Fri May 11, 2018 15:00

Seems once again cryptic takes it out on the people that spend a lot of time and effort playing the game rather than spending money. Of course the developers need to get paid but there are far better options than to hurt the very active or new players. Really what this will cause is some might leave the game or they might just play a lot less and that helps no one (unless they lag) . "Oh wait" now it makes since the RAD nerf is just a way to control lag by reducing the game population :geek:

Updated Bonus RP Event
The Bonus RP event has been improved! Not only are more Refinement Points awarded at a time, players may also spend Astral Diamonds to boost their RP drop rates even further, up to five times the normal rate. In addition, players now receive bonus rewards for reaching certain milestones on the way to the event's cap!

They need to look at more ways to add AD sinks in the game it is just that simple . Giving players more items or options that can only be gained through spending AD. :roll: And i can bet RP event will be a flop either not enough of a AD sink or the cost to get the bonus will be more than if we just go buy the RP from auction house :|

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by Shadowblade » Fri May 11, 2018 20:35

I think it hurts all players, but mostly the new and the low to middle level who play a lot AND spend cash money.

There was a huge influx of AD when they changed the XP system, as I got an extra 2 to 3 million AD between WB Sales just from invoking. They have since nerfed the rates of getting 30k Rough AD for a level up (45k with Invoking Bonus). My inactive characters would get a level up every week or two. Now, they get almost one per day. Those I play get 4 or 5 level ups per day, and atm I am playing four.

Personally, I buy Zen a few times a year in the promos and I think that this is more than a fair contribution to the Devs' pay cheque, considering how much in total I have spent in more than four years.

But I spend Zen on that which needs Zen. This is Pres Wards and VIP, maybe Bank Slots. Very rarely, a Race Re-Roll. I already have almost all the Epic Mounts due to the 50% off coupon thing in Maze Engine, IIRC. I just lack the ugly, undead one with the Run Speed and the new one with Power/ArPen.

I spend AD on that which needs AD. This is Marks etc from the Wondrous Bazaar. So almost all my AD disappears from the system, because the AH is very rarely cheaper for Marks these days. The only other thing is Cubes, which are usually cheaper on AH due to those with lock box addiction.

Just yesterday I bought 99 Cubes of Augmentation from the AH for 500k because they were more expensive at the WB, despite my 25% VIP discount. In fact, they were cheaper than the 40% total discount including the periodic WB Sales. The last thing I bought from the AH for about 500k was one of the Orcus pieces to complete the set, and that was last August for my new TR (which is now retired). I've spent a few dozen kAD here and there on Alchemy reagents, but that's it. I am actually selling Men-at-Arms for Leadership.

So putting more essential stuff in the WB AND reducing the price seems to be the thing. But it was Cryptic who said many of the cumulative changes were to reduce the AH prices, but the AH can be cheaper than the WB. And ALWAYS cheaper then the Zen market for things that are crap anyway (Companions etc). Only Wards can cost you more on the AH.

I doubt I ever get much more than 100k AD per day anyway, as I do not really farm AD. I am more into getting Boons for the first 8 mods on all my old and new Alts. I also hate having to run Random Queues for AD as it's boring. But just like nerfing running an Epic dungeon solo, just to see if I can, AND getting AD at the end of it, this is just another nail in the coffin.

Depending on what happens next, I'll probably do what I did in Mod 6: strip all enchants and runes from all characters, pick a single "Main" to play, keep what I need and sell the rest for as much as possible. That would be a shame, as it's a lot of fun playing Alts of different classes every day and seeing them (and my skill with the class) improve. But it looks like I might have to spend a few weeks doing nothing but running every character through random queues just to stock up on AD.

I wonder what will happen with the VIP 12 benefits?

:x

.
:shock:
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a HAMSTER! man in possession of a good HAMSTER!, must be in want of a QUACK!"
Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen (1775–1817)

Good to see forum censorship never makes things look worse then they actually were to start with.

:roll:

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by Mr.Linux » Sat May 12, 2018 00:58

To my understanding, almost everything in the Neverwinter game is AD based. The other games by this same company uses a gold standard for the player auctions. I know, I played a little of Star Trek, and it was Energy base and Dilithium was AD. The best move to get inflation down in the game at present would be close the AH posting action, wait 5 days for items to sell, and start back up on the gold standard. If this is the only difference in the games, the problem would be done in 5 days.

Too much currency could be handled by just limited production. If some source pays 5,000 AD, change it to 2,000 AD. Caps won't stop incoming flows unless they stop creating it. If they are seeking cash from players, it would be in their best interest to create some product to buy, one with cash, and not from the zen store. This would be done as a bonus feature when buying zen and not just trading it.

Sounds like players will have to learn a new way to swim or leave the pool.

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by Sharpedge » Sat May 12, 2018 07:22

The devs decision is the correct one however I do not think this will resolve the issue on its own. They also need to add more ad sinks, since there is clearly an issue when you have 1 billion excess ad added to the economy every 3/4 days.

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by reg1981 » Sat May 12, 2018 20:31

The current backlog has over 9 Billion AD sitting in there lol

I agree with Sharp, more AD sinks needed that are WORTH spending AD on.

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by j0Shi » Sat May 12, 2018 20:57

It's really inevitable unless you agree to raising the ZEN exchange rates, which I am certainly not.

I mean they could also offer ZEN for free, which we all know isn't happening lol :mrgreen:
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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by nightstar » Mon May 14, 2018 22:30

Inflation will not drop easily with the amount of AD that players own obtained in the old days where both exploits were farmed and coal wards obtained easily gave wealth to loads of players (coal wards would then rise in value when they limited their supply). And of course let's not forget all the botting that goes on allowing to amass ridiculous wealth. The 100k AD per account seems like an attempt to limit botting more than anything else. Maybe that is a good thing.

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by Enomic » Tue May 15, 2018 09:24

Short term, it will be tough for the newer players to adjust, long term, I think this will be a positive change.

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by Shadowblade » Tue May 15, 2018 11:30

I kind of agree with the idea of "why should new, totally F2P players expect to get VIP for nothing and never spend a penny?

But why should Cryptic care if it takes 21 days for them to trade their AD for Zen?

This is surely a direct effect of the F2P model? And, really, why should Cryptic care a whit? Is it really the seasonal Zen backlog (which will go down during the Summer Festival), or is it because "too many AD"? Do they really think people like me will buy Zen to trade for AD? If totally F2P players want to be totally F2P, let them wait.

At the same time, "Render unto Neverember that which is Neverember's. Render unto Ilmarin that which is Ilmarin's."
Why should completely honest people who buy Zen to spend on that which costs Zen and use their AD mostly on AD sinks be affected negatively? And why are Ultimate Marks so cheap compared with Superior Marks, while we are at it?

They made a big fuss about making a "mistake" with the Trade Bars. The mistake they made was when they repriced the Trade Bar store to be sensible and equitable, they had FORGOTTEN that they had previously made Wards BtA. So suddenly they were MUCH cheaper AND unbound. So the AH got flooded at a price much cheaper than the Zen Market. So, instead of making them BtA again, they removed them completely.

Putting them back in, BtA, would be a good move for players.
Putting them in the Wondrous Bazzaar, BtA, would be a good move for players.

But will it create more cash-for-Zen sales?

Another reason for the influx of AD is because when they changed the post-70 XP from 1,750 k to 100 k, I don't think they adjusted the % drop rates for 30k rough AD. I know for a fact that I got an extra 2 million rough AD from invoking just after that change, then the drop rates were nerfed.

In the year between Feb 26, 2017 and Feb 26, 2018, I got 69 drops of 45k = 8,507 rAD/day
In the 24 days between Feb 27 and March 22, I got 46 drops of 45k = 86,250 rAD/day
In the 53 days between Mar 23 and May 14, I got 32 drops of 45k = 27,170 rAD/day.

I'm not working it out per number of level ups per character, so don't ask. :P yes, I do have a few more characters (5) now than I did in Feb, 2017.

I hope this won't be used as an excuse to remove rough AD from post-70 level ups. For about 3 or 4 weeks, the rate changed to 10x as often with the new XP tables, then dropped to about 3x the old rate.

And, of course, a few "Names and Faces" from the theory-crafting and upper tier of the player base have posted here, supporting this change. I remember such people saying they made 1 million AD per day by selling reagents and drops from the newest Mods when they went live, after practicing for a month on the test server.

So what's the deal? It's OK for you to make 1 million AD per day, while the rest of us have to make do with 100k? Sure, you move it around from other players to yourself while I pay mine into a sink and it vanishes from the game. But that's the point, isn't it?

:lol:

Of course, everyone told them over and over that Random Queues were a dumb idea and that new players will get abused by 15k level 70s. My own new Tiefling TR got kicked from Cloak Tower last August at level 16, just because she could not run fast enough.

:x

What excuse will they make this time? What will they identify as "the cause" of their imagined problems? Certainly not "Devs Acting Dumb".

:x
:shock:
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a HAMSTER! man in possession of a good HAMSTER!, must be in want of a QUACK!"
Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen (1775–1817)

Good to see forum censorship never makes things look worse then they actually were to start with.

:roll:

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Re: 100k AD per account per day? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Post by Jagovax » Thu May 17, 2018 16:13

I was highly alarmed when I first read the change as I run multiple alts through RQ to capitalize on the easy AD. I don't do so on all my alts as I use most for salvage from the runs on my two mains, who stop after completed their RQ cycle and then farm end-game content. I make well in excess of 100K AD/day with what doesn't feel like an extreme amount of effort and I know I waste a lot of time in chat, checking the AH, or waiting for a group to form. I was curious to see how much the change would actually impact me so I started breaking down the numbers from each of my runs. Here's what I am concluding:

Old Daily AD Refinement Cap = 36K*toon slots
New Daily AD Refinement Cap = 100K
Assumptions:
1. Seals = @14 AD/Seal (actual rate depends on whether you buy rings (300 seals for 4KAD) or restore boots (350 seals for 5KAD), which will change in Mod 14 as restoration means something else for Primal gear)
2. Queue/Pre-made Form time slows rate of gain and can be an uncontrollable variable. Having a core group of guildies/friends helps this.
3. Role Bonus increases rewards, which decreases time to reach cap. It also has a lower queue time, which has value because there is less delay.
4. VIP increases AD returns, which decreases time to reach cap.

UNREFINED AD GAIN METHODS:
1. SALVAGE METHOD
Requires consistent group or solo runs of content producing salvage items (e.g., chain running Etos/Shores or Tong). Can be combined with RQ Farm method if you have multiple alts who can farm content. Other alts then primarily become salvagers to take advantage of bonus RAD from invocation. This method is largely limited by the speed of the salvage runs. Tong will normally net around 20K AD salvage (drops + Chultan Treasures rings - it can go higher if you are lucky with drops or if you factor in Seals) and will also sometimes produce unbound items you can sell on the AH (e.g., UES), which increases it's run value to around 30K AD. If you can consistently complete Tong in under 30 minutes, it is more lucrative than RQ Farm, but requires better gear. It also requires organizing a group, which RQ Farm doesn't require. It's productivity may also depend on your ability to produce/acquire keys to open chests. Key production may be one area where additional end-game alts can be beneficial to overall cost savings benefits vs. legendary dragon keys (or you can just forego the bonus chest if you don't feel the content rewards are worthwhile, though foregoing the bonus chest reduces the overall value of the run - if your runs are fast enough, this may not matter). This method will normally hit around the 100K AD mark in under 2 hours of Play Time. Continues into Mod14.

2. RQ FARM METHOD Pre-Mod14.
Random Leveling Dungeon: @9K + 60 Seals (@10K AD)/5-10 minutes run
Random Skirmish: @7.5K + 90 Seals + 2K drop Salvage (@11K AD)/5-15 minutes run (PoM and Throne are substantially longer and drag out the completion time, which is why many people avoid; Master of the Hunt is usually substantially shorter, which is why people favor it, even though it rarely produces salvage)
RED: @6K + 120 Seals + 8K drop salvage (@16K AD)/5-25 minute runs (given the campaign/IL requirements, and that you may have to carry under-geared toons queuing for specific dungeons, the completion rate can be variable, which is why people turn to pre-mades)
Combined with Wanderer's Fortune and Quartermaster/Dragon Hoard/Fey enchants, you can stack on quite a bit of RP as well each run for additional AD value.
Under this system, it is very reasonable to run a daily leveling dungeon and skirmish every 30 minutes at 21K AD profit per alt, even with terrible gear. Your profit is then Play Time/30 Mins*21K AD. If you have sufficient alts, on average, you'll hit 100K AD in under 2.5 hours Play Time. The more time you have to play, the greater your profit, which is largely only limited by your alt number. However, this is very boring and no amount of AD could bring me to run all my alts through this system and I just don't have the time.

3. RQ FARM METHOD Post-Mod14.
Under Mod-14 RQ System - the option of multiplying base AD from RQ by your alt number goes away. You only get it 1x/account, though the rewards are higher.
Leveling Queue (pre-70): 8K + 60 Seals (@8.8K AD)/10-15 minutes run (gear scaling increases time to complete these)
Intermediate Queue (up to IL 9K): 12K + 100 Seals + 6K drop salvage (@19.4K AD)/5-15 minute runs
Advanced Queue (IL 9-13K): 15K + 120 Seals + 10K drop salvage (@26.7K AD)/Run time is highly-variable depending on group composition and which dungeon placed in.
Expert Queue (IL 13K+): RP (bleh) + 20 Seals of the Crown + uncertain salvage (hard to predict run time as well). Not really being considered because of unpredictable nature.
Leveling Queue and Intermediate Queue will still be widely accessible and should generate @28.2K AD in around 30 minutes, which is an increase over now. The issue is that it's not repeatable for full value on alts. If you want to hit daily cap, you are then forced to run salvage, repeat RQ at a much lower value, or look for alternate sources of unrefined AD. Repeating leveling queue drops to 128AD/min (pointless). Repeating Intermediate Queue drops to 842AD/min (mostly from salvage), which should be doable for most people. Grinding this way should get you to 100K right around the 2.5 hour mark due to delays between queue pops, which is close to the current system, but daily capped. You can speed this up by forming pre-mades of like-minded players. You also have to run approximately 11 dungeons (1 leveling + 10 Intermediate) at a fairly steady pace, which is boring. Using bonus RAD on alts will decrease the time required by increasing salvage values, which can reduce the number of dungeons required. Being VIP helps.

RESULT
My daily pattern will likely shift to RQ on my DPS GF for ITF speed runs, then shift to end-game salvage runs to cap. I'll add weeklies on alts that I'm not completing them on now to reduce the number of dungeons I have to run, which will mean I buy less keys. It should allow me to sit at cap with less play time required as hitting the progression wall is real. That may also free up time to run non-AD producing content (e.g., hunts, pvp) or to grind GMs on alts. I'll probably also stockpile some unrefined AD for days where work/travel/life doesn't allow me a full play cycle. If there is a silver lining it is that the daily cap does finally curb the ever-growing daily grind that I really don't enjoy.

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